I recently did an interview with the Polish publisher of Into the Dungeon and Into the Tower, where I got to talk about D&D, fantasy inspirations, ancient ruins, and the horrible maps I use to try to keep track of the choices in my gamebooks. It was translated into Polish for their own release, but I got permission to post the English version - here it is below!
All book photos from the Polish publisher Muduko’s website!
Interview with Hari Conner – the author of Into the Dungeon
In early June, the choose-your-adventure book „Into the Tower” had its Polish premiere. We took this opportunity to ask Hari Conner – the author of this exceptional gamebook – a few questions.
First of all, tell us what encouraged you to enter the world of choose-your-adventure books when you decided to write your first gamebook, „Into the Dungeon”?
illustration by Letty Wilson
I really love the immersive feeling when it’s your own character exploring a new, unknown place. I played old-school gamebooks like Fighting Fantasy as a kid - they were more like puzzles, with lots of dice rolling and killing monsters.
I wanted to write my own kind of gamebook with more story, and very easy for beginners to understand. Personally I also love weird monsters and non-fighting options in D&D, and games like The Witcher and Baldur’s Gate. So I wanted to have choices for thinking or talking your way through situations as well - or even listening to the monster and siding with them.
Fantasy inspirations
Your gamebooks are set in a dark, mysterious and dangerous world full of secret passages and magical artifacts. Is there any particular reason why fantasy is your genre of choice?
I always loved fantasy since I was a kid - I read Lord of the Rings very young, and a lot of a British kids’ fantasy series called The Edge Chronicles. I loved the dungeons and dark parts, as well as the ordinary characters who really just cared about people and nature, instead of being big strong fighting heroes.
All fiction is already made up, so I always feel, why not make up exciting, impossible things. When you push fiction into a completely different world, sometimes the more abstract setting can let you tell stories that are more about the feelings, whether that’s complex emotions or just anticipation or curiosity.
What inspires your writing the most? Are your books inspired by your favorite authors and books, or is the universe you’ve created purely a work of your imagination?
Well it’s imagination, but of course every fantasy book I’ve ever read feeds into that - as well as sci-fi, horror and romance, videogames and tv. I wrote Into the Dungeon not long after reading Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea books - the story isn’t similar at all, but I was inspired because I found the atmosphere and writing so absorbing.
I’m definitely also inspired by real-life strange animals, myths and history. I live just outside Edinburgh, where the castle, cobbled streets and mysterious underground dungeons and tunnels are just part of the city.
Favourite characters?
Playing „Into the Tower”, readers can create their own hero or pick one of four pre-made characters. Is there a character you like the most, for their story or any other reason?
I love them all for different reasons! The thief is a good character if you want to feel really cool while you play. The sailor has a storyline that involves strange magic, which I love, and the most emotional endings, which a lot of readers have told me they really enjoyed. The acolyte has the biggest fantasy ‘end of the world’ main character plot, which I think is great as a later playthrough. And, the libertine is kind of an idiot who did stupid things for love, with charm as their only skill - that’s the kind of character I would play in D&D, so I find that very fun.
Working with illustrations
You are responsible for the story of „Into the Dungeon”, but you were also involved in the process of illustrating the book. What gives you more satisfaction – spinning all sorts of crazy tales, or creating wonderful art?
illustration by Sajan Rai
I like them both, but actually one of the most satisfying things about these gamebooks is getting to work with some of my favourite artists ever for the guest illustrations. Of course, I enjoy drawing what I wrote. But it’s so cool to bring in an artist to do something they specialise in - for example, Sajan Rai does incredible, fascinating weird sci-fi drawings, much more inventive than anything I could have done. It’s so exciting to see the other artists come back with art that transforms the page into something amazing, or adds a completely new angle.
How do you write a gamebook?
How are your gamebooks made, and how long does it take? Since a gamebook is not your standard book, could you guide us a bit through the whole process?
For all my books, I usually spend years thinking about it and writing down notes or scenes in between other work. Eventually, I have so many small parts written that I have to make it properly, and spend a few solid months intensely connecting, writing and editing it all. I usually draw the characters and setting early on to work it out.
I make a very big complex ‘map’ alongside writing the book, to show all the different options. When the story is written, there’s then a lot of playtesting with friends to make sure it works and feels fun to play, and the map helps with this - so making sure that if you met a particular character or picked up a certain item, you get special scenes, or maybe even a different ending.
EXTRA GAME DESIGN INFO: The purple arrows are a new layer in photoshop which I use for tracking planning eg. ‘what did X playtester do?’ ‘what routes can Y character reach?’ or ‘which areas can you get to with Z item?’ Other layers are colourcoding for where illustrations might be good, endings that might want revising or cutting, or ‘gates’ where you need a certain eg. logic or strength score to choose an option.
The map helps me think through how the game works - making sure certain pages are easy to hit (or miss), and that only certain characters can access certain areas - so if you play all 4 of them, you end up having to choose a different way to get inside every time.
It looks complicated here, but it helps make it easy to playtest so that in the final, everything goes smoothly and feels intuitive! You picked a strong character? Of course you should be able to jump over that wall. Kissed someone or met the king of woodlice earlier? Now you can access another scene with them later. Picked up [REDACTED HORRORS]? You can’t escape them now! etc.
The final thing is drawing and hiring artists for extra illustrations - I often have dream artists in mind while I’m writing it, and I was very lucky that almost everyone I invited said yes!
Life as an author
How often do you think about your readers while creating your story? Do you aim to invoke any particular feelings, and do you often check how people receive your books?
In this kind of book, thinking about readers is definitely important to make sure choices feel ‘earned’ and not frustrating. I definitely remember reading other gamebooks where you turn left and die suddenly with no warning! And I think it can be fun to read a scary warning, then choose to go into danger anyway. So having lots of play-testers helps to make sure it all works smoothly and feels fun, and to find out what people find most exciting.
I also think you have to follow your heart as a writer, too - it’s good to take trusted feedback, but trying to please every random person will never work. So I try not to check online reader reviews too often, even though the reviews have been very lovely! But it’s always amazing when people send messages to me directly, or tag me in social media posts telling me about what they did on their playthrough or how much they liked it. I love that people sometimes read the books out loud so their friends or kids pick the choices, or draw characters and make backstories!!
Reader review from amazon…
Writing gamebooks is hardly your only activity. What else do you enjoy doing?
The other part of my job is actually writing and illustrating historical and fantasy comics, mostly with a romance plot, so that’s the main thing I do every day. And as you can probably tell, I love reading and games! I’m disabled so it can be difficult, but I also like to find places I can travel with my wheelchair - I love to visit forests and old buildings and ruins, if I can find a way.
What next?
„Into the Tower” is your second gamebook. Are there more in the works, and if so – do you plan to expand on the existing universe, or create something brand new and unexpected?
Actually, at the moment I’m working on a vampire romance gamebook for adults, which is very different!
But I also started notes a while ago for a sci-fi/ fantasy gamebook that’s more similar to the others - also suitable for young readers, and also choosing from several characters with different skills. It’s the same universe, but on different planets. I’ve always loved stories exploring dark and abandoned spaceships, I think it’s actually very similar to a dungeon crawl in atmosphere, and has so many exciting possibilities.
Both of those are in very different settings, but I do have ideas for regular books set in the same fantasy world as Into the Tower, which I hope I get to publish one day, too…
Fantasy for everyone
While translating and editing the Polish edition of „Into the Dungeon”, we’ve made sure that every person can easily immerse themselves in the role of a chosen character.* How important is it to you - a non-binary person - to promote such actions?
*(Polish is a very gendered language, so in the translation, asterisks are used instead of gendered endings so the reader can use any inflection they feel comfortable with.)
When I was younger, the main character in my favourite books and games was never like me, and I didn’t feel welcome in comics and gaming shops or clubs - which can both be a big problem for women and other groups, too.
When games do have more gender options, including for me non-binary options, it’s a huge relief to feel like you’re actually allowed and welcome to be part of that world. It’s hard to describe how different it feels. I definitely wanted that to be a part of my own gamebooks! Part of the fun is imagining your own ideas for your character and exploring that world as them, and I strongly believe everyone should feel included and welcome.
The Polish-language editions of Into the Dungeon and Tower are out now from Muduko publishing!
Find out more about the English versions: Into the Tower || Into the Dungeon || or the German-language translation.